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Forum:2019-06-21 (Friday)
Discussion for comic for . The wiki pages don't just write themselves, join in on the fun. ---- Where did Higgs slink off to? He may be the trump card in ensuring things go Agatha's way here. Because I don't trust Klaus-In-Gil either. Or Thorpe for that matter. The Secret Jagergeneral may be what it takes to counter K-I-G in this situation. --MadCat221 (talk) 06:53, June 21, 2019 (UTC) ➤ : I think Higgs has simply hidden himself and is watching, waiting for when he has to intervene. After all Klaus and Gil know him and his cover in the empire is very useful. And Tarvek is cunning and competent enough to buy at least 5 seconds if things go really bad. Neogoki (talk) 10:24, June 21, 2019 (UTC) : Higgs has vanished, Zeetha has vanished...and I have a dirty mind. It's a thought, anyway. heteromeles :: Oh, that's brilliant! I wish I'd thought of it. Bkharvey (talk) 02:05, June 23, 2019 (UTC) Boy, I was sure that there would be a scene change today. Nice to know who it was. I don't think Trelawney is lying about having seen the queen, or about her interest in preserving a secured Lucrezia (not unlike Zola's copy!), but I fear that something will go wrong because of the delay. As for Higgs, he won't be a secret much longer if he opposes Klaus, his supposed employer. ➤ Are we meant to take seriously the idea that Gil is strong enough to overpower Dimo? I know he's well trained in martial arts and all that, but I didn't think he was superhuman. ➤ : Well, he took on Vole, and then trained excessively after Agatha disappeared. And there was some implication his father did some things to him as a child. Argadi (talk) 09:56, June 21, 2019 (UTC) :: Oh, right, I forgot about Vole -- and I didn't really notice at the time how remarkable that was. I just thought of Vole as a big guy, like the one Hadrian sent to beat up Ivo Sharktooth. Thanks for straightening me out. Bkharvey (talk) 10:01, June 21, 2019 (UTC) Today's quibble: Klaus taking over Gil on seeing Agatha wasn't automatic, as he seems to be implying here, on previous encounters with Agatha. Bkharvey (talk) 07:34, June 21, 2019 (UTC) : Yes it was. When Agatha's recorded message starts playing, and when they meet in person in the Corbettite's St. Szpac, Klaus immediately pops up. The only time it doesn't happen is during their meeting on the roof of Castle Heterodyne, and even there, Gil was saying 'this is my one chance to retrieve you alive.' --Geoduck42 (talk) 10:07, June 21, 2019 (UTC) :: No, I had the recorded message episode in mind; it plays for quite a while -- with Gil able to listen to it, not switched off -- before Klaus suddenly appears. But, re-reading the St. Szpac story, you're right, he shows up almost instantly (although Gil and Agatha have time for a good hug first). Bkharvey (talk) 10:22, June 21, 2019 (UTC) ::: We can't be 100% certain, but I disagree. Gil has to time say "I knew it!" Then we get one panel of Agatha talking, we see Gil again, and it's pretty heavily implied by Gil's expression that the Baron has taken over, but is listening to what she has to say rather than immediately smashing the device. --Geoduck42 (talk) 10:40, June 21, 2019 (UTC) :::The recorded message was just an image, not Agatha physically present. Klaus steps in when Gil is clearly having strong feelings for Agatha. The Roof Scene is the first encounter Gil/Klaus has with Agatha. Gil is trying to capture her and Klaus would rather not reveal his presence this early. At Saint Szpak, Agatha surprises Gil/Klaus, allowing Gil a brief moment to hold Agatha before Klaus took over. She distracted Klaus with the modified Si Vales Valero to put Brother Ulm into the train. This encounter was anticipated, therefore Klaus was in charge before he entered the room. --Fred1740 (talk) 14:10, June 21, 2019 (UTC) P.S. Speaking of people slinking off, where's Zeetha? It sure would be fun for her to say "Hello, Daddy" to Klaus in Skiff. Bkharvey (talk) 09:33, June 21, 2019 (UTC) : Or "Hello little/big brother" to Gil. 9thGeneral (talk) 13:43, June 21, 2019 (UTC) :Not quite yet. I feel that Zeetha wants to face Klaus personally to reveal this. That is going to have to wait a awhile. --Fred1740 (talk) 15:12, June 21, 2019 (UTC) :: It is also not clear how much of Klaus' knowledge is in the "personality overlay". The K-I-G may not know Skiff or any of the relevant information. All of this is going to take a long time to unfold, it is just too juicy. Plus, L-I-A is going to put up a fight and we have yet to bring Bang or Seffie into the picture. 9thGeneral (talk) 20:04, June 21, 2019 (UTC) eh what? where is this coming from? even if its true, does zeetha know? she seemed surprised when klaus spoke her language when they fought -bikke : Yeah, there's no proof that Zeetha has figured all this out, but she'' might'' have. She now knows Klaus speaks Skiff, and while in the Kastle, she learns that he taught Gil some mental disciplines very similar to the ones they teach in Skifander. But this is Zeetha, and making brilliant mental leaps is not exactly her forte. If you add in stuff from the print-novels, she knows that "Chump" was from Europa, and ran away from Skifander when she was only a month old, with the implication that no one has ever told her why. (90% certain answer, he did it to save Gil's life, because Skifander has a bias against twins.) --Geoduck42 (talk) 18:27, June 21, 2019 (UTC) :Klaus and Zantabraxus had fraternal twins - Zeetha and Gilgamesh. Lucrezia sent Klaus to Skifander where he, most likely being embarrassed by finding himself duped, referred to himself as a Chump. The name stuck. Someone requested a sketch of "Chump" - Phil drew Klaus. In a Reddit session, someone asked them to say something about Skifander. Kaja said "It's a Matriarchal society". Phil said "They don't like twins". Zeetha would have know Chump took her brother with him. The novels have Zeetha being told to look for Chump if possible while in Europa as that's where he's said he was from. So Klaus speaks Skif when no one else, besides Agatha, even hear of the place (He has been there). The Gil, Klaus' son, said Klaus told him someone who looks like Zeetha might want to kill him. That's when the penny drops for Zeetha. Chump left with his son as somehow his life was threatened in Skifander. Here is the son of a man who speaks Skif, in a land where no one has heard of the place, saying dad told him a Skifandran might want to kill him. OK, OK,OK, It is not cemented in canon yet but the clues are just screaming it. Particularly the latest where we are shown Klaus bursting out of a Mirror holding an infant. Klaus was gone six years so he came out somewhere other than Europa just as Albia came out of a mirror far from home. For my detailed version, you can go to http://modojiesen.proboards.com/thread/2705/storynight-mamma-gkikas-volume-heirs You will have to read down through a summary of the volume first --Fred1740 (talk) 00:37, June 22, 2019 (UTC) :: I agree with your basic premise, particularly the origin of "Chump's" name, but still have to nitpick- while you'd think her family would have told her, at no point has Zeetha shown explicit awareness that she had a twin brother who was spirited away in infancy. (One possibility: if Gil is the older twin and thus the First Born True Heir, you can see why it'd be hushed up even to Zeetha) Even in the expanded scene with Gil in the print novel, she just says that Chump ran away when she was a month old, with no reason given. And while, yes, she also says one of the reasons she came to Europa was to try and "find" Chump, it's again not made clear if this is an assigned mission or something she's doing out of personal curiosity. So, when the inevitable Big Reveal finally happens in-comic, she could be the one doing it, or just as surprised as everyone else. --Geoduck42 (talk) 02:21, June 22, 2019 (UTC) ::: Don't the last panel and panel 5 make it clear from Zeetha's facial expression that she has a pretty good idea what's up with Gil? Bkharvey (talk) 02:05, June 23, 2019 (UTC) :::: She might have figured it out. She should have figured it out. But until/unless we hear her explicitly say so, I wouldn't be surprised if the Foglios had her be surprised by the revelation. --Geoduck42 (talk) 04:19, June 23, 2019 (UTC) Looking back at Wednesday's discussion forum, I would say Bkharvey deserves some Moxana points. My guess about who was speaking from off page in the final panel was quite wrong, as usual. I also agree with Fred1740's educated guess that there are (now) zero to two pages left in this volume, for exactly the same reasons. However, if the Foglios handle the volume division as they did for the previous one, we won't actually know where this volume end and the next begins for a week or two; or even up to a month. For a reminder of what I am talking about, see the note at the bottom of -- William Ansley (talk) 19:36, June 21, 2019 (UTC) :Thank you! Enough random guesses and I had to hit one right eventually... Bkharvey (talk) 20:58, June 21, 2019 (UTC) I wonder... if they do successfully excise L-I-A, the Locket will have outlived its second purpose. Now... who else in the room has an uninvited guest in their head right now? --MadCat221 (talk) 20:39, June 21, 2019 (UTC) : Clever! Bear in mind, though, that K-I-G keeps reminding us that the process is different from what Lucrezia does. I think they should save the locket for the real Klaus, although wasping is different from summoning too. Bkharvey (talk) 20:58, June 21, 2019 (UTC) : It is a clever idea to try. But no need to save it as they can both use it on Gil now and on Klaus later. Argadi (talk) 22:10, June 21, 2019 (UTC) : Of course, if it turns out that personalities can be extracted, stored, and re-implanted, I do wonder if Klaus can be restored to his pre-wasped state by extracting the overlay from Gil, then reinstalling that overlay in Klaus. Would that overwrite the wasp effect? heteromeles ::No. Klaus was already wasped when he made the overlay, right? Bkharvey (talk) 02:05, June 23, 2019 (UTC) ::That could be awkward, since the person who wasped Klaus is trying to take over Agatha right now, and Agatha can do the command voice thingie. What you're saying implies that Klaus-in-Gil would respond as if wasped if Lucrezia commanded him. If the Foglios trying to wrap this volume up by Wednesday-ish, that's not exactly the complication they want to introduce now...or is it? heteromeles ::: Well, Klaus doesn't necessarily know everything, but he thought it was a good idea to put himself inside Gil, tell Gil (via Phil the storyteller) that he (Klaus) was wasped, and take himself out of action by freezing time in Mechanicsburg with himself at ground zero. He wasn't able to put all of himself in Gil, so maybe whatever in his brain reacts to having been wasped isn't included. (And yeah, that makes your original point possible, but I still think that even if the overlay doesn't include the waspedness, it certainly can't include the earlier non-waspedness.) Bkharvey (talk) 05:33, June 23, 2019 (UTC) I'm jealous. I'd like a lab where there are containers capable of holding an entire personality either lying around on the bench or readily whipped up and jacked into a brainiac circuit on a plug and play basis. These sparks don't realize how good they have it! In other news, it seems that Violetta has shrunk by the last panel. Or has Gil gotten bigger? heteromeles : On the other hand, I'm envious of Dimitri from Germany, getting a callout in the Studio News! Bkharvey (talk) 02:05, June 23, 2019 (UTC) I cannot believe that Violetta is that small. Still less that even a minimally competent Smoke Knight does not have a far better way of immobilizing a larger person. -- SpareParts (talk) 02:39, June 23, 2019 (UTC) : Gil seems to be immobilizing Dimo with just one of his hands holding one of Dimo's. I'm guessing that he's using a nerve pinch or something like that. In other words, Gil's training may be at least as good as Violetta's. I do agree about the size, though. That's a cheat on the part of Phil. Bkharvey (talk) 03:13, June 23, 2019 (UTC) :: This comic plays with character's relative size a lot it's not really a new thing. Sparks in the Madness Place frequently get drawn bigger. And sometimes people get drawn biger just because they are being indimidating. Klaus has many times. Usually not in the same frame as someone else, or one other person, but pretty much any time there's an upward angle on someone Phil cheats and also draws them much bigger in addition to using an angle that makes them look bigger. 05:37, June 24, 2019 (UTC)